Dr. Anne Wagner: Can MDMA Fix a Broken Marriage?

In this episode, 3L1T3 sits down with Dr. Anne Wagner , clinical psychologist and founder of Remedy, whose research pushes MDMA therapy beyond the individual — into the space between two people. We explore what happens when couples facing PTSD enter treatment together, why trauma rarely belongs to just one partner, and whether psychedelic medicine can transform relational patterns where traditional therapy fails. We also examine the ethical and emotional risks of dyadic MDMA therapy: consent, power dynamics, memory, boundaries, and what happens when only one partner improves. Is this the future of trauma care — or a dangerous leap? This conversation challenges the standard medical model, questions the limits of psychedelic therapy, and asks whether healing sometimes requires more than one nervous system. ✅ Key Points / Topics Why relationship trauma isn’t just “one person’s PTSD” How MDMA-assisted therapy is being adapted for couples The science behind “dyadic healing” What happens when both partners dose — together How MDMA opens emotional flexibility + secure bonding Core risks: power imbalance, coercion, storytelling shifts Ethical challenges in couples psychedelic work Is relational MDMA therapy scalable? Why some couples shouldn’t take MDMA together What traditional therapy gets wrong about trauma “The Power of Two” — healing via the relationship itself Case outcomes — surprising results Where research goes from here 🎧 Plus: updates from Psychedelic Science 2025, upcoming guests like Leonard Pickard and Reggie Watts, and why the future of therapy might come in pairs. ⏱️ Chapters: 00:00 – Intro & Conference Check-In 04:22 – Meet Dr. Anne Wagner 04:38 – Misunderstandings About MDMA Therapy 07:13 – Empathy and Connection on MDMA 09:05 – Pilot Study Results from MDMA + CBCT 14:08 – Unexpected Dyadic Challenges 16:31 – Why Couples Therapy vs Solo MDMA Work 20:09 – Shifting Toward CPT + MDMA 24:18 – Preview of Anne’s Panels at PS25 28:57 – Defining Integration for Couples 32:35 – Will Dyadic Integration Become Its Own Field? 34:52 – Power Dynamics, Communication & Conflict on MDMA 37:22 – MDMA, Neurodivergence, and CPTSD 40:38 – Future of MDMA in General Relationship Work 42:13 – Ethical Guardrails for Psychedelic Couples Therapy 44:50 – Risks of Untrained Psychedelic Facilitators 45:44 – Training Models for Dyadic Psychedelic Therapists 47:20 – Access, Regulation & Stigma Barriers 49:20 – Anne’s Origin Story: Psychedelics, Trauma & Relationships 51:23 – Most Unexpected Lesson from the Work 53:09 – How to Connect with Remedy Centre 54:02 – Final Thoughts & Psychedelic Science Plans 59:09 – Outro: PTSD Breakthroughs & Upcoming Guests Music by Flintwick Send us Fan Mail Love the podcast? Help keep the conversations going by checking out our official merch shop! We've got t-shirts, hoodies, hats, mugs, stickers, and more, with new designs added regularly. Every purchase helps support independent, honest conversations about psychedelics, science, and culture. Shop now: https://divergent-states-shop.fourthwall.com/ FiresideProject.org Download the app or text/call 62-FIRESIDE Zendo Project Our listeners get 10% off the Zendo Project SIT Program with the code DIVERGENTS10 Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you. <