Joe Moore on the Future of Psychedelics: From Underground to Mainstream

Psychedelics are no longer the fringe—they’re reshaping medicine, culture, and consciousness itself. In this episode of Divergent States , 3L1T3 and Bryan sit down with Joe Moore , co-founder and CEO of Psychedelics Today , to explore the messy evolution of the movement: from the chaotic 1960s to today’s corporate clinics and grassroots revival. They trace Psychedelics Today’s origins, dive into the Vital training program , and discuss what it means to build trust in a scene that still distrusts institutions. Joe shares insight into the next decade of psychedelic science—AI-assisted molecule discovery, new drugs entering clinical trials, and the fading of old stigmas—and the risks of turning medicine into marketing. Along the way, they talk Leary and McKenna, ketamine cults, LSD alchemy, and the underground traditions worth preserving. The result is a grounded, forward-looking conversation about authenticity, ethics, and the future of altered states. Key Points Covered How Psychedelics Today started from the breathwork underground What the 1960s got wrong (and right) about psychedelics The danger of idolizing substances and personalities — “don’t worship the drug” How overuse of ketamine mirrors past mistakes in psychedelic culture The future of psychedelic research and the AI-driven chemistry boom Vital , the 12-month training program creating the next generation of psychedelic professionals What it takes to run an ethical business in a scene that distrusts business Harm reduction and why testing your substances matters more than ever The LSD Philosopher’s Stone — does the chemist’s energy shape the trip? Why pleasure and integration must coexist in psychedelic healing 🎙️ Joe Moore joins r/Psychonaut for an AMA on October 9, 2025! 🎧 Support the show and hear the Patreon-only “Trip Stories & Cosmic Jokes” bonus segment at patreon.com/divergentstates Special thanks to SndBagz for the music! 00:00 – Intro / Bryan returns / Reggie Watts recap / Season 2 preview 04:16 – Meeting Joe Moore / Origins of Psychedelics Today 07:30 – Building a new media voice beyond academic monoculture 08:46 – Lessons from the 1960s and the cult of personality 12:00 – “Don’t Worship the Substance” – The Danger of Psychedelic Deification 13:30 – Unsung Heroes: Shulgins, Dr. Z, Grof & Leonard Pickard 15:00 – Repeating Old Mistakes: Ketamine Overuse and Media Myths 17:40 – “Is Anyone Driving the Bus?” – Who Really Controls Psychedelics Today 20:30 – Can Clinical Models Honor Mystical Experiences? 23:00 – Psychedelic Journalism: Objectivity vs Calling Bullshit 25:30 – Inside Vital – Redefining Psychedelic Training 28:30 – Teaching Mysticism to Therapists 31:00 – Building Trust in a Culture Skeptical of Business 37:30 – The Next Decade – Five Psychedelics Likely to Be Legalized 43:30 – Harm Reduction & Testing Culture 46:00 – The LSD Philosopher’s Stone – Energy, Alchemy & Intention 49:00 – Patreon Teaser – Trip Stories & Cosmic Humor 55:00 – Wrap-Up w/ Bryan – Breathwork, Culture & Community 59:00 – Closing – Future Guests, Patreon & Discord Invite Send us Fan Mail Love the podcast? Help keep the conversations going by checking out our official merch shop! We've got t-shirts, hoodies, hats, mugs, stickers, and more, with new designs added regularly. Every purchase helps support independent, honest conversations about psychedelics, science, and culture. Shop now: https://divergent-states-shop.fourthwall.com/ FiresideProject.org Download t