🧪🧮 We CAN test big policy ideas without slowing government down: Eleanor Williams from the Australian Centre for Evaluation 🧮🧪

We talk with Eleanor Williams from the Australian Centre for Evaluation about making evaluation fast, rigorous, and genuinely useful for public service decisions. We move from a 40,000-person employment services RCT to the practical steps that make testing possible, then unpack why transparency and mixed methods matter when the stakes are high. Along the way we discuss: turning a mutual obligation debate into a 'fact question' through a large three-arm randomised controlled trial why a null result can be a powerful policy signal the enablers that make responsive RCTs feasible, from systems to leadership to ethics and consent how ACE partners with departments through a hub-and-spoke model, secondments, and capability building planning evaluation from day one using program logic and theory of change separating program cost from evaluation cost to make smarter investment decisions publishing and normalising evidence through the ACE Evaluation Library using developmental evaluation and test-and-learn without getting stuck refining measures forever what decision makers value under time pressure, including “killer stats” plus narrative and qualitative insight improving services with small, fast trials like pre-call SMS nudges at Services Australia Mentioned in this episode: Australian Centre for Evaluation ACE Evaluation Library, hosted on the Australian Policy Observatory The Magenta Book Anthony Costello, The Social Edge This podcast was recorded on Kaurna land, and we recognise Kaurna elders past and present. Always was, always will be. Now for some appropriately bureaucratic disclaimers.... While we have tried to be as thorough in our research as busy full time jobs and lives allow, we definitely don’t guarantee that we’ve got all the details right. Please feel free to email us corrections, episode suggestions, or anything else, at thewestminstertraditionpod@gmail.com. Thanks to PanPot audio for our intro and outro music. 'Til next time!